When: Friday, 11-14
Time: 5-6:30 pm
Where: Ackerman Union room 2412
Facebook Event Page

Agenda

Yes there will be snacks, don’t worry.

There are gonna be a few topics but the following is the meeting theme and main discussion topic:

Pseudoskepticism

Discussion regarding who would fall under the label of a pseudoskeptic or what are the features of pseudoskepticism? Then using this as a way to give both a negative and positive definition of skepticism and a skeptic

Examples with links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism

Global Warming Skeptics
http://www.junkscience.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkscience.com

9/11 Troofers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Truth_Movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_Truth_Movement

Moon Landing Skeptics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Rogan
you get the idea

Hope to see you all there!

Last Thursday, I attended the debate, “Away With All Gods! Possibility or Fantasy?” which was put on by UCLA’s Center for the Study of Religion.  The guest speaker, Sunsara Taylor, is a writer for the Revolution Newspaper, and sits on the advisory board of The World Can’t Wait (yes, that means she is a Communist, not to poison any wells).  She is on a speaking tour for Away With All Gods!, a book by Bob Avakian, the chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party.  You can watch a sample of her talk, or watch her appearance on The O’Reilly Factor.  The respondent, Scott Bartchy, is the director of UCLA’s Center for the Study of Religion.  I’ve previously had Bartchy as professor of History of Religion, and I can vouch that he’s a great speaker and intellectual.

Sunsara wished to convey three central points: that all religion is harmful, that religion wrongly takes human nature to be flawed, and that there is a much deeper basis for morality than religion.  To argue that religion was harmful, she had a variety of examples of modern violence that has been approved by religion.  She also argues that the Bible is not simply factually wrong, but morally wrong, even in the New Testament.  She is very eloquent, however, I thought she overused examples to the detriment of her point.  Bringing up lots of extreme examples does little to show that all religion is as bad as that.  I felt this played directly into Bartchy’s stance, which was that there is good religion, and bad religion.

Bartchy agreed that there is plenty of bad religion out there, but said that many of Sunsara’s and Avakian’s scriptural interpretations had factual errors.  He argued, in fact, that Jesus’ message had many socialist aspects.  Marx himself was inspired by some passages in the Bible.  Bartchy said that religions are founded on the power of myth.  Just as the Abrahamic religions use the myth of history, with a god that closely follows his people, Marxism is uses the myth of the class struggle and revolution.  He also drew parallels between Christians’ picking and choosing from the Bible with Sunsara’s picking and choosing from the history of Communism.  When Sunsara said that some things in Communist societies were good, some bad, Bartchy immediately compared it to his own point about good and bad religion.

These were some other intriguing moments from the debate.

• Bartchy played the “Stalin” card.  Normally, I would groan at this cliche, but I think it is a fair point against Communism.  Sunsara’s response?  She played the apologist for Stalin, saying many historical facts have been wrong or exaggerated.  As I tried to tell one of the Communists afterwards, I think it would have been more effective to simply admit that of course Stalin didn’t get everything right.
• An audience member asked Sunsara where morals come from.  One of Sunsara’s main points was that there is a more profound basis for morality than religion, but I don’t think she ever effectively supported that point.  She said that only through examining reality, can we know what steps to take to reach our goals.  But instead of explaining where those goals come from, she went off on long tangents as if she had misunderstood, or was avoiding the question.
• Another audience member asked how Bartchy could pick and choose from something that is divine.  Bartchy responded that everyone picks and chooses; it is neither unusual or bad.
• After the debate, we were going to ask Bartchy a question, but a woman cut in front of us.  I didn’t catch the whole thing, but I heard her say, “So you don’t really believe in God”.  Bartchy insisted that she didn’t know that.  But she kept on saying “He doesn’t really believe in God”, walking away satisfied.  Talk about presumptious.  Asking someone their personal views and then disbelieving their answer is not a move I would recommend.

Does that mean our group has two roles, or one? I don’t think anyone would go so far as to say we should exclude theists, but there are a number of people who think of skepticism and atheism as the same thing, or closely related things. This is debatable. However, I think they are two different ideas, and I think you should think so too.

I will begin by conceding that skepticism and atheism are related. At the very least, they are correlated. But I think it’s more than that. Skepticism actually causes people to become atheists, and atheism causes people to become skeptics. Anecdotally, I became an atheist because I carefully considered arguments while under a skeptical mindset (meaning, an open-minded, but critical mindset). And many atheists are highly sympathetic to the goals of skepticism, because they realize that religion isn’t the only source of strange beliefs out there.

Furthermore, I think there are good reasons underlying the causational link. Not that skepticism logically entails atheism, or anything so direct. But I do think atheism is more in the spirit of skepticism than theism is. I think the idea of appealing to an unknowable entity in order to explain the universe, or for pretty much any purpose at all, is not good skeptical practice. Even for deism or fideism, my thoughts are along the lines of, “I don’t find that very compelling, and I don’t think you should find it compelling either.”

But of course I would think these things. Of course I think atheism is more correct than its alternatives. I wouldn’t be an atheist if I didn’t.

The thing is, there are a ton of things that cause disagreement among skeptics. When I first subscribed to Skeptic magazine, I found that I disagreed with a third to a half of it. That is totally how it should be. Obviously, if there’s an article about investigating a paranormal claim, I would expect it to be a well-designed investigation with a more or less definitive conclusion. But a lot of these are opinion articles, or they are detailed interpretations of complicated bodies of evidence. If you’re not picking out lots of specific details that you disagree with, you’re not doing it right.

Religion is very clearly within the region of “stuff that skeptics disagree about all the time”. And it’s a very popular topic too, because everyone seems to have a unique opinion about it. I’ve spent years in the atheist and skeptical blogospheres, and I still occasionally see a perspective that is unusual and surprising, and not in a bad way either. I find that the variance of religious perspectives is much greater than the mere difference between atheism and theism. If we were to exclude theists from the skeptical movement, to be consistent, we’d have to exclude a lot of atheists too. We couldn’t possibly be so conformist.

To finish this off, I’d like to make two imperfect comparisons to give two different angles on how religion relates to skepticism.

First, religion is like politics. It is not a standard skeptical topic, but skeptics certainly tend to be politically conscious, and tend to enjoy discussing it. Libertarianism is not considered to be the same as skepticism, partly because less than half of skeptics are libertarians, but also because it’s a completely different idea. Even if every skeptic were a libertarian, and if skepticism really did lead directly to libertarianism, we would still not consider the same thing. It’s a difference of area of application, and a difference of method and conclusion. If you agree with the skeptical method, but by a strange twist of reasoning, come to an uncommon conclusion on one particular non-standard topic, you’re still a skeptic.

Second, theists are like women or ethnic minorities. Lamentably, there aren’t many of them in the skeptical movement. For whatever reasons, skeptics tend to be predominantly white males. There should be more minorities and women! Not because we want to be able to say, “We’re so diverse and tolerant,” but because we should be equal opportunity. I don’t like the idea that half of the population is for whatever reason less likely to be skeptical than the other half. Similarly, I don’t like the idea that religious people are less likely to be skeptical than the nonreligious. I don’t care if there’s a good reason for it. It’s still sad.

This piece originally appeared on my own blog, but since it is relevant to BASS, I am reposting it here.

Fred Phelps and the WBC are most widely known for the website www.godhatesfags.com.  The first I had heard of them was back around 2000 for having a running counter of how long Matthew Shepard has been in hell. They also run www.godhatestheworld.com, www.americaisdoomed.com, priestsrapeboys.com, www.hatemongers.com (No, I’m not making that one up), www.signsofthetimes.net, and their blogging site, blogs.sparenot.com. So you’re prepared, everything is, “fag.” As in, “fag,” is an adjective.

So you realize, we’re talking about someone who protested at Jerry Falwell’s funeral because Falwell didn’t hate homosexuals enough.

I do have something nice to say about them. They have very nice webpage design. That’s about as nice as you can get.

See, they say things like

WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, THANK GOD FOR DEAD SOLDIERS, FAG TROOPS, GOD BLEW UP THE TROOPS, GOD HATES AMERICA, AMERICA IS DOOMED, THE WORLD IS DOOMED, etc.

Perceiving the modern militant homosexual movement to pose a clear and present danger to the survival of America, exposing our nation to the wrath of God as in 1898 B.C. at Sodom and Gomorrah, WBC has conducted over 33,000 such demonstrations since June, 1991, at homosexual parades and other events, including funerals of impenitent sodomites (like Matthew Shepard) and over 200 military funerals of troops whom God has killed in Iraq/Afghanistan in righteous judgment against an evil nation. America crossed the line on June 26, 2003, when the Supreme Court (the conscience of the nation) ruled that we must respect sodomy. WBC teams have picketed all over the United States, and internationally (including Canada, Jordan and Iraq). The unique picketing ministry of Westboro Baptist Church has received international attention, and WBC believes this gospel message to be this world’s last hope

You see, where your average proselytizer will try to woo you with God’s love, the WBC wants us all to know that God doesn’t love anybody..

You’ll say “but doesn’t ‘whosoever believes’ mean that everybody has the chance to believe?” Nope. Turn a few pages to John 10 (you may be surprised to find that there is actually more to the Bible than John 3:16, but believe me, there is). You will find in John 10:11 that Jesus says “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” Later on in verse 26, Jesus says to some unbelievers: “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” Uh oh - you John 3:16 heretics have a few problems on your hands. Jesus says He came to die for the sheep, and then proceeds to say that only His sheep can believe. In other words, only the people for whom Jesus died will believe. Note that the reason that unbelievers don’t believe is BECAUSE they are not His sheep. This passage explains who the world is in John 3:16, and it’s clearly not everyone. Furthermore, the only people who can believe are the ones whom God has ordained to eternal life. “And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.” Acts 13:48. So, if you have been ordained to eternal life, that means that you will believe, you are one of God’s sheep, God loves you, and He sent His Son to die for you so you wouldn’t be condemned. If you have not been ordained to eternal life, that means you are not one of His sheep, you NEVER will believe and are already condemned.

…

Our message to this evil world is that God hates you, and you better prepare for the return of Christ in power and glory. Jesus came the first time to save; and Jesus will come the second time in vengeance, because you do not obey the Gospel. It will be soon, and you will experience the wrath of the Lamb, face to face. (Deut. 7:10, Rev. 6:16).

There you have it folks. Wrath of Lamb.

At GodHatesTheWorld, they’re putting up sites for every country that God hates. (If you haven’t been following along, I’ll clue you in. It’s all of them.) Generally, it’s because of, “fag,” things. Nigeria is hated because the age of consent is 13. Oh and Fags. Pakistan for being Muslim. And Fags. And Divorce and Abortion and Prostitution. Japan? Fags. China? Fags. Mexico?

Sodomite Mexico is fast reverting to the vile Satanic ways of the filthy faggot Mayan and Aztec empires, which were obliterated by God Almighty because of their sins: Mexico - Land of the Sodomite Damned.

This is pretty much par for the course. Every disaster they rejoice. Katrina, they rejoiced. Floods in MO, they rejoice. Soldiers die in Afghanistan and Iraq , they rejoice. Hangnail? You’ve incurred God’s wrath by not hating fags enough.

Let’s take a look at a few videos of Shirley Phelps Roper who does the media rounds on their behalf.

Shirley Phelps Roper on Hannity & Colmes

Shirley Phelps Roper and Children on Tyra

Shirley Phelps Roper on Fox News Again

Michael Moore vs. Westboro Baptist Church

There’s an upside to this and that’s that they’re composed mostly of Fred Phelp’s family and a few others. It’s apparently a non-recruiting cult that revels in being hated.

Oh and they don’t just hate gays.

“Whatever righteous cause the Jewish victims of the 1930s-40s Nazi Holocaust had, (probably miniscule, compared to the Jewish Holocausts against Middle Passage Blacks, African Americans and Christians — including the bloody persecution of Westboro Baptist Church by Topeka Jews in the 1990s), has been drowned in sodomite semen. American taxpayers are financing this unholy monument to Jewish mendacity and greed and to filthy fag lust…Homosexuals and Jews dominated Nazi Germany…just as they now dominate this doomed U.S.A….The Jews now wander the earth despised, smitten with moral and spiritual blindness by a divine judicial stroke…And god has smitten Jews with a certain unique madness, whereby they are an astonishment of heart, a proverb, and a byword (the butt of jokes and ridicule) among all peoples whither the Lord has driven and scattered them…Jews, thus perverted, out of all proportion to their numbers energize the militant sodomite agenda…The American Jews are the real Nazis (misusers and abusers of governmental power) who hate God and the rule of law.”
– “WBC to picket Holocaust Memorial Sodomite Museum in D.C. Jan. 20,” WBC “News Release,” December 26, 1996

From the ADL

“We understand that Iraq is the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets without fear of arrest and prosecution. Alas, the United States no longer allows the Gospel to be freely and openly preached on the streets, because militant sodomites now control our government, and they violently object to the Bible message…The same majoritarian sodomite tyranny that now guides the Clinton administration’s repressive policies toward Gospel preaching on America’s streets, is apparently responsible — at least in part — for the merciless slaughter by starvation of 400 innocent Iraqi babies each day in your country. If our government and laws will allow it, and at the invitation of your government, we would like to send a delegation from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, to preach the Gospel on the streets of Baghdad for one week in the near future.”

– Fred Phelps, in a letter to Saddam Hussein,
November 30, 1997

ADL

Reportedly, the WBC were invited to Iraq, went and then proclaimed how much God Hates Fags in Baghdad.

It’s easy to laugh them off, but this handful of folks have proved such a nuisance, especially with their recent protests of military funerals that there’s a federal law governing protesting military funerals. A handful of nutters that generally consists of one family and a few others.

There’s much more to be found on this cult if you’re up for the very easy Googling.

Fact: You become super cool if you’re a BASS officer.

An important part of this meeting will be OFFICER POSITIONS. We will be preparing for our officer elections and ask that if you are interested in being an officer, participate in the election!

A rough agenda:

• Mention some news about BASS and in general.
• Finish up the discussion on changing minds.
• Discuss BASS and what we can do and go over some of the suggestion cards.
• Short report on the 2008 Skeptics Society conference.
• Discuss the question “Does science make belief in God obsolete?”
• Some business to talk about officer positions.
• Have people fill out membership forms (and pay the dues, which are optional but help buy the snacks we have at meetings).
• If there is time, watch a video.

We first introduced ourselves by stating our name, our major, why we were at BASS, and what animal you would be if you could morph into one. I then went onto a brief intro about the freethought community and probably plugged the Center for Inquiry a bit heavily (whoops, there I go again). After that everyone separated into groups of about 4 people and discussed (or at least attempted to) how one goes about changing another person’s mind. People seemed very into the discussions and this lasted for about 45 minutes. Everyone seemed very into their respective discussions.

I can’t wait for next week’s meeting. Things can only get better from here!

A Rough Agenda:

• Introduce ourselves
• Introduce what BASS is and does briefly
• Mention some news from the world of science and skepticism
• Have a discussion on what it means to change someone’s mind and how you go about to do that. Have you ever had a discussion with someone about politics or religion and you think your reasoning is crystal clear and yet the other person just doesn’t get it? We will discuss why this possibly happens and other related issues.
• If time permits, we will watch some interesting video clips and then discuss them.

There will be FREE SNACKS AND DRINKS.

See you there!

It is hard to believe BASS has been in existence for 3 years now! Those are 3 years all of us here at BASS are proud of.

Welcome to our award winning site! Here you will find all sorts of info about BASS, its philosophies, and member posted content such as commentaries.

If you are visiting our site because you visited our table at the Student Activities Fair this year, thanks for coming! It was a pleasure meeting so many interested and enthusiastic people. We hope you enjoy BASS this upcoming quarter and year.

We are planning several events for this year. In fact, we have the first one already set up. BASS will have a group outing to Melnitz Hall to see Bill Mahr’s new documentary Religulous (Click to see event info).

You can get e-mails about BASS events and meetings by subscribing to the BASSnews listserv. We try to e-mail you as little as possible and strive to keep e-mails at about one per week.

We also have a Facebook group. We send invites through Facebook for BASS events and post pictures of our activities on the group wall.

Thanks for your interest in BASS! Be sure to come to our first meeting on Friday, October 3 at 5pm in Ackerman 2412. If you are interested in what we do at meetings, read this informative post by one of our members.

THE PLAN: Meet up at Melnitz Hall at UCLA, then watch the movie there and then afterward head over to the coffee shop next door in Broad Art Center and have an informal discussion about the movie. (Please read the important note below).

PDF Map of UCLA with Melnitz

MOVIE SYNOPSIS: From the director of “Borat” comes a new documentary by Bill Mahr: “Religulous.” Bill Mahr travels around the world and asks people questions about God and religion. Knowing Bill\’s rapier wit, it is bound to be an extremely entertaining movie while being informative at the same time.

Armed with cameras and a bag full of zingers, comedian/talkshow host Bill Maher (REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER, POLITICALLY INCORRECT) travels the world to try to make religion look, well, ridiculous. “Skeptics unite: You have nothing to lose but your inhibitions. That, in sum, is the underlying message of Bill Maher and Larry Charles’ brilliant, incendiary RELIGULOUS.” –VARIETY

IMPORTANT NOTE: The movie begins at 7:30pm. HOWEVER, since it is a free movie, in order to guarantee a ticket for yourself, we are meeting at Melnitz EARLY at 6:45pm. Don’t worry, you’ll have good company while waiting. Look for people with Darwin Fish stickers on their chest.

This is a FREE movie at Melnitz Hall. It is hosted by “Melnitz Movies.”

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