Shirley Phelps-Roper in Beverly Hills

But it may not be entirely accurate to say that we were “counter-protesting” the Phelps family. I feel like that’s almost taking them too seriously, because they are a tiny fringe group that receives a disproportionate amount of attention. One could argue that we ought to ignore them, but I think that they’re quite harmless, more likely to hurt their own cause than help it. So we might as well have our fun, seeing these celebrities of hate.

The Westboro Baptist Church appeared at two locations, first at a Jewish University fund raiser, and second at the Golden Globes.

Yes, they are singing

Yeah, so they hate the Jews, because they killed Jesus. But before you label them as haters, I should explain that their hatred is a “perfect hatred”, as opposed to the “human hatred” of the KKK. That is to say, they hate what God hates. And God hates nearly everything. Jews, fags, and America are just the beginning!

The saddest part is that even the kids are indoctrinated into hating Lady Gaga, or “Lady Gaygay” as they called her

So a group of five or six Phelps family members set up at the corner of an intersection. A surprisingly high percentage of the passing cars would slow down to honk, shout, or flip them off. But the Phelps family just happily sings and laughs the whole time. For them, this is a worshipful experience, which just goes to show that one person’s religious experience can be another person’s hate speech. They may be creepy, but at least they’re entirely peaceful, and you can just go up and talk to them.

We were the largest group there, but there were a few other individual counter-protesters. You could always tell the counter-protesters by their cameras. However, most passing cars would have difficulty distinguishing us from the Phelps family, since a small rainbow flag was the main indication (we neglected to bring signs). Later, when some cops told us to go to the other side of the intersection,* we were more clearly opposed to the Phelps family, and we got a lot more support from passing cars.

*I think the cops were worried about possible violence. We’re entirely peaceful, and more amused than angry, but I perhaps that’s what they all say.

Later in the day, the Westboro Baptist Church appeared at the Golden Globes. But our trip to the Golden Globes was relatively disappointing. For one thing, it was raining, in Beverly Hills of all places. For another, I don’t have good pictures yet.

There were many people there to counter-protest the Westboro Baptist Church, but an even larger number of people to watch for real celebrities in passing limos. Speaking of real celebrities, we saw Sarah Silverman, who came to mock the church. I now like Sarah Silverman just that much more. But she might have been a bit disappointed, because only two people from the Westboro Baptist Church showed up, and they had regular black and white signs rather than the distinctive colored ones. We can find better than that at UCLA!

I will leave the final word to the Westboro Baptist Church:

God HATES DOOMED america. We have been telling you about this for almost twenty years, and the entire time you have been mocking us. LITERALLY! God is mocking you right back, stupids. [sic]

(This was cross-posted on my blog.  More photos will be forthcoming from other members.)

This report is a follow up to the Pop Rocks and Coke event BASS held on Bruinwalk on Wednesday, June 3rd and Friday, June 5th. -The Eds.

Part of my current difficulty with job-hunting is that I’ve done things like this. Who the hell wants a super-villian when she can’t even take out a bunch of college kids in an attempt to boost her own GPA?

At least I got Herbert’s* whole, “plans within plans,” thing right. Shaun and I only tabled so we could hang out. Then we had to come up with something better than, “Ask an Atheist.” Then we had to come up with something better than polling BruinWalk about invisible dragons. It just so happened that we came up with something that let me slip a nefarious plot in there: Feeding the student body Pop Rocks and Coke.

A brave student ingests some Pop Rocks and Coke. Amazingly, he survived.

Genius, right? Everyone knows that Mikey from the old Life cereal commercials died when his stomach exploded after having Pop Rocks with a Coca-Cola chaser. You know all the smartie-pants are going to be all, “nuh-uh,” take it and then their stomachs explode, adjusting the grading curve accordingly. I’m like Snow White’s evil stepmom, except way more evil and substantially less hot. And lots of high fructose corn syrup instead of apples and poison combs.

We set up our table on Wednesday morning with a nice little tag line of, “Stressed about Finals? Free Pop Rocks & Coke!” Shaun insisted we add a polite request saying, “(Please, try not to die). A few people who came up were gravely concerned. Frankly, I was more concerned about my escape plan. Would I be able to get out of there before UCPD showed up and tazered the hell out of me? Was our cover of, “Doing it for science,” enough? And what of this photographer for UC taking pictures to promote the University? He took a lot of photos of us. If I pulled my plan off, this’d totally blow my alter-ego’s cover.

Spencer and Shaun man the handing out of the deadly coke and pop rocks to stressed students.

Eighty-four people had Pop Rocks and Coke. Zero died.

I went and cried in the third floor Ackerman bathroom as my dreams of super-villian grad school burst like so many Pop Rocks in the mouths of so many would-have-been victims.

But hey, what else was I to do but buck up and try again, right? Besides we still had more Pop Rocks. So, out we went again on Friday.

Fifty-three lived. Zero died. Again.

I’m just not very good at this, I think.

Things that could have been done better:

• Gloated over my plan and revealed all the details to a super hero
• Know a superhero
• Checking Snopes
• Doing something like this at the beginning of the year, not tenth week of last quarter (you hear me, little BASStards?)

*Dear Reader, we are sorry Deja made such an arcane and geeky reference to Frank Herbert and his Dune series. -The Eds.

The room was overflowing with people. Many of the panelists invited their friends, so we had a very mixed audience. One panelist, Jennifer, was part of the Passion for Christ Movement, so we had several audience members wearing their distinctive T-shirts with words like “EX-Hypocrite” and “EX-PornAddict”. Someone from the Passion for Christ Movement was also kind enough to videotape some of the discussion. I will let you know if these videos are made available online.

The following is not a transcript. I simply took detailed notes of the discussion. Nothing is quoted, everything is paraphrased. I try to be fair and accurate, but I apologize in advance for any important omissions or errors.  No attempt has been made to verify the various claims which were made.

Introductions

The first introduction was by Shoshana, a conservative Jew. She explained that Judaism is primarily based on the Old Testament and the Talmud. The Talmud consists of two parts: Mishna, the oral laws, and Gemara, which is basically commentary. There is a range of different positions in Judaism, going from orthodox, to conservative, to liberal. She is part of the smallest group in the middle, the conservatives.

The second introduction was by Ben, a deist. Deists are monotheistic, but they believe the Bible is a metaphor. They don’t believe in miracles or in the divinity of Jesus. They believe in using reason to justify faith. It is more a philosophical position than a religious one. Ben listed a few Deists including Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, and possibly Benjamin Franklin. Deism originated in Europe, and declined around the time of the French Revolution, but there has been a resurgence in the last decade or so.

Leilani offered her own brief introduction by explaining the historical meaning of “infidel”. Infidel means to cover, as in covering the ears or eyes. The word was not originally intended as an insult, as it is often used now, but as guidance or a warning.

Opening questions

The first question was posed to the Christians, Tim and Jennifer. Why base your theology on an interpretation of Paul? That is, why is the resurrection necessary for forgiveness? Jennifer began by noting that nothing is wrong with interpretation. The crucifixion is based on facts. For example, the Roman historian Tacitus described Christ and Christian beliefs. The Talmud, too, mentions Yeshua, and the historian Thallus mentions a darkness at the time of Christ’s death. Tim discussed God’s justice. According to Tim, if you live under Sharia law, stealing is punished by cutting off the thief’s hand. This is a just punishment, because you are under Sharia law. Likewise, we are part of God’s system, so God’s justice must be just. Under God’s justice, God used an innocent man to forgive everyone’s sins.

The second question was posed to the atheists, Andrew and Daniel. What is the purpose of life? Andrew said that there is no inherent purpose. He assigns the meaning and purpose himself. He would like to have a life which is sustainable and enjoyable. Although the freedom to assign one’s own meaning can be scary, he feels more peaceful and content to rely on his own values. He is free to make himself a better person. Rather than being a pawn, he is actively responsible for changing the world. Daniel said that this made him feel more empowered, though Andrew disagreed on this point.

The third question was posed to the Muslims, Nader and Naqib. How do you weigh the evidences for different gods? After opening with a prayer, Nader explained that our purpose is to worship the greater. If we study past societies, we find that they always have a higher figure, though they often have different characteristics. To understand the details of this higher figure, it is best to ask God himself. Nader then pointed to the Koran as a book without contradictions, and some scientifically confirmable facts. The Koran refers to male and female parts of plants before people would have known it was true. It refers to the earth as egg-shaped (the kind of egg in question is a spheroid). The Koran is only a book of guidance, an instruction manual for life, but these things confirm it. While other texts have made predictions, only the Koran is perfect. The Koran says that Allah is absolute one, has no beginning or end, and has no family. Jesus clearly doesn’t fit this description. Nader said that the creation will not have evidence of the creator. Naqib added that intuition of God is not sufficient. That’s why we need the prophets.

The Muslims were also asked what they thought of the story of Abraham (summary: God asks Abraham to sacrifice his son, but stops him at the last moment). They described the story as a test of faith.

More prepared questions

Each of the next four questions was asked of all three groups. Each group was allowed about 20 minutes total to answer all the prepared questions (including the ones above). If some answers are longer or shorter than others, that means that the group allotted more or less time to that question (or I took worse notes).

Prior to these questions, Jennifer took a moment to explain the “EX-Hypocrite” T-shirt she was wearing. She said that labeling oneself a Christian does not make oneself a Christian. At an earlier point in her life, she may have thought of herself as Christian, but she wasn’t. She went on to say that she thinks there is clearly design in the universe. And she referred to the Job verse 37:18 which says that God “spread out the sky”, in agreement with current cosmological science.

What books and authors do you recommend? Jennifer recommended C. S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. She mentioned C.S. Lewis’ Liar, Lunatic, or Lord argument. Daniel first recommended the Bible, followed by authors Carl Sagan and Dan Barker. He liked Dan Barker’s harm principle and Carl Sagan’s logic and reason. Naqib first recommended the Torah, Psalms, the Gospel, and the Koran. His final recommendation was a book called Muhammed: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources, by Martin Lings.

What led you to your beliefs? Tim said that he was a missionary child. However, he remarked that Christianity is set apart from other religions in that everyone has freedom to choose Christianity. And so he freely chose Christianity rather than just being brought up into it. Andrew explained that he came from a Christian family. When his family stopped going to church, he continued going with friends, but he eventually stopped. The concept of hell was one of the sticking points for him. So he explored many other religions (mentioning Alan Watts and Zen Buddhism), eventually deciding that the scientific is what’s most reliable. Nader explained that he is a Muslim because he wants to be. He explored other religions. He read the Koran and other books, and found the Koran to be the best.

What do you believe happens after death? Jennifer said that we have all sinned, and we are enslaved by sin. As sinners, we will experience hell after death, which is a separation from God. Daniel said that nothing happens after death. That’s why he must try to enjoy this life. He would like to help you enjoy your life too. Naqib said that when you die, you will be asked three questions: Who is God? Who is the prophet? What is your religion?

Do you try to convert other people? Tim explained that no one can be saved without Christ. So he’d have to be a monster not to try to help people. Andrew said that he wants everyone to have the freedom to choose. He wants the ideas to become well-known so that people can choose. Some atheists try to smash belief, but this isn’t very common. No one wants to force people to give up religion. However, he wants to counteract some of the negative forces from other religions. He commented that in the story of Abraham, the first question that should be asked is “Am I being deceived?” He noted that when the Jim Jones cult committed mass suicide, no angel came in to save them, as they saved Abraham’s son. We need to be more independent-minded. Nader said that Mohammed was the last prophet, and that we should share the message. But he does not convert, he only invites people to investigate. Nader also commented that Jim Jones was an atheist and communist, and was not guided by an angel.

Q&A session

The following questions were submitted by audience members.

To the Christians: What middle ground can you find with the atheists? Jennifer related an anecdote of a computer science guy to whom physics proved God. She agrees with the atheists that there is a lot of mystery in the universe to be satisfied by.

To the atheists: Could you comment on the statistics which show that atheists donate less to charities, and have higher rates of depression? Daniel thought that the relationship between atheism and depression might be going in the other direction. Depression can lead to questioning, among other things, God. He also said that there are very few explicitly atheist aid missions, and atheists often donate to religious charities too.

To the Muslims: Is it true that the Koran says that Jesus was not crucified? Naqib explained that the Koran is ambiguous about this. The Koran talks a lot about what did not happen, but does not say much about what did happen. There is a lot of controversy between traditions on Jesus. But Islamic tradition usually emphasizes the life of Jesus rather than the death.

To the Christians: Do you believe in the Rapture or the endtimes? Tim said he does not believe in the rapture, which was an idea developed in the middle ages. However, tribulations will occur. Jesus will return. Tim believes that we are in the endtimes, and that it has been the endtimes since the crucifixion.

To the atheists: Hitler destroyed millions of lives. How is this wrong? Daniel said that we decide it is wrong. We decide that destroying innocent lives is wrong.

To the Muslims: Do you believe in the endtimes? Nader said Mohammed left minor signs of the endtimes, but no one but God knows when it will occur. Since people only have free will up to their death, we can say that in a way, judgment starts at death.

Feel free to post any thoughts about the event in general or the content of the debate here.

A brief recap of this quarter:

We had 9 meetings this quarter. Some were bland, others loud with discussions, but overall fun and sociable.
We had our first event this quarter! Dan Barker of the Freedom From Religion Foundation gave a lecture on the historicity of Jesus.
We finally got our signboard out on Bruinwalk this quarter. It is a beauty according to BASS members (we’ll put a picture up in a bit).
We wished Richard Dawkins a happy birthday by video. Click here to watch the Quicktime video of it. Click here to get the poster of Richard.

Keep an eye out for our Spring 2007 quarter meetings and events!